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Refutation of Incorrect Logic

بســـم الله الرحمن الرحيــم

In this part, I have chosen not to write a separate text, but to respond to the document which I have received from the same person point by point, as presented in the original document. My response is provided in RED.

The Original Document (by Shabir Ally)

Assalaamu Alaykum

Thanks for your detailed reply to the questions I have asked. In particular I am benefiting greatly from reading your expositions, which make reference to the Arabic texts in our source books. You were right in guessing that I am lacking in knowledge of the Shariah, lacking in reading, and lacking in knowledge of the Arabic language.

Dr. Tariq I must confess that I felt intimidated by the tone of your previous correspondence. I am afraid that my response could actually provoke your anger and cause a rift between us. I hope that this fear is unwarranted, and that if there is any disagreement we can settle it by focusing on the evidence and proof for our beliefs. In fact after your last response I felt that you would prefer that we drop the matter, but now an email from one of your students indicates that my response is expected. Hence this humble attempt.

Dr. Tariq, one of your students suggested that I was trying to trap you with a question. I want to be clear that I am not interested in a game of tricks and traps. I only want to know the truth, to live by it, and die for it. Also, please do not assume that I am trying to hide the results of my research, for I have already put them in writing by Allah’s permission. Moreover, I am not writing anything here or elsewhere to win an argument. I work on the assumption that I may be wrong and that others may help me to see where exactly I am wrong. Then I will be able to correct my position.

In fact, due to opposition, the motivation to give up my position is very strong. Only my sense of responsibility before Allah makes me hold on to what He has guided me to understand through my thorough readings on the subject. Dr. Tariq, I would much rather wish that I did not have this responsibility, and that someone else such as yourself had arrived at this position (God forbid), for then it would be so easily understood by those who simply like to take things from known scholars (no known scholar will arrive to that except heads of Bida'a such as Amru Ibn Ubaid or Wasel Ibn A’ataa).

I attempt below to answer your question as to how I might show that my position does not limit the knowledge of Allah (My question was not really a question to reply! I have to explain that to you now. Questions can be made for various reasons: to ask for reply “like in regular question and answer type”, to state a fact: such as in Quran; Allah asks “Did you create it or We are the creators” 56-59, or to put down the opponent’s ideas: Allah said “Are you the more difficult to create or heavens, He created” 79-27, and for other reasons that are more than twenty (you should read in the science of البلاغة (Balagha) in Arabic). My Question to you wasn’t the first type for sure. It was rather a mix between the second and the third.) Many points have been raised now, and it seems useful to begin with a list of the main points of my belief and to ask for your systematic criticism. I will first list the most basic points to which I do not expect you will have any objections. Following that, I would list some additional reflections and await your evaluation of them.

Be careful Mr. Ally, as many people think that they are on the right path and that they are holders of the responsibility in front of Allah, but they are actually astray. That is why our good predecessors said that the person of Bida'a rarely repents as he thinks it is Deen. Read carefully the verse of Al-Kahf:

"Those whose efforts have been wasted in this life. While they thought that they were acquiring good by their works?"

POINTS OF AGREEMENT REGARDING QADAR

1. We believe that everything happens according to the Qadar of Allah which involves four components:

   1. Allah knows everything: past, present, and future. There is nothing he does not know. What he knows is everything. He knows every event before it occurs. He also knows those events which did not occur, and how they would have been if they occurred. Nothing occurs except according to his foreknowledge. This knowledge is not such as to compel a person to do actions for which Allah will punish him.

   2. Allah has written everything that will happen until the Day of Judgment. This writing is not such as to compel a person to do actions for which Allah will punish him.

   3. Everything happens according to the Universal Will (Mashee’ah Kawneeyah) of Allah. But his Legislative Will (Mashee’ah Shar‘eeyah) specifies what pleases him and hence what we ought to do to please him. Hence some things that occur in accordance with his Universal Will he is not pleased with, but he permits their occurrence for good reasons often because people freely choose them and Allah wants to preserve that free choice.

   4. Every event and everything other than Allah is a creation of Allah. Nothing occurs except that Allah creates its occurrence. This is a debate between Ahlul Sunnah and the A’ashariyah. You have to understand that we, humans, use language, which is a barrier in many contexts. In fact, with all the greatness of Quran, many Bida'as still came under the general umbrella of Quran; as people could not understand the barrier of language and did not have the intelligence to put the phrases together and understand the Shariah in its totality. Ahlul Sunnah say that humans create their actions using the creation that Allah SWT gave them when He created the ability to do things, meaning that they do it with free will. The A’ashariyah, (which it seems that you are influenced by their arguments as well!) argue that Allah creates every single act in universe, directly not through the causality chain. They were forced to create what they called Al-Kasb where they tried to mediate between the Jahmiyah (who said the creation of the acts of humans by Allah and this means He is forcing them to do it) and Ahlul Sunnah (who said Man DOES , I did not use the word create here as it makes confusion and mixes thing for simple minds, actions by the power that Allah Created within them to do so). So, in the final analysis, Allah is the one that creates every thing. This Kasb is never understood even by A’ashairah. However, what is the significance of that in this discussion? Is it just to add confusion to already confused treatment of a subject?

2. Our position, the position of the Ahl as-Sunnah wa al-Jamaah (People of Sunnah and Jamaah), is a balance between the extremes of the Compulsionists (Jabriyyah) and the Freedomists (Qadariyyah). Yes they are, but not in your way of thinking. You are trying to define the “middle” according to your own standards, so don’t live with this delusion. What you say is as far from Ahlul Sunnah as are Mu'tazilah and Qadariyah.

3. We hold that humans have limited freedom: having no choice in some affairs for which they are not responsible; and having a choice in other affairs for which they are responsible. Like when a child is born, who are the parents .. etc.

4. Deviating on one side, the Compulsionists held that people have no choice but to act as they do; hence they are not responsible for their actions and even when they sin they are simply doing the Will of Allah. True.

5. Deviating on the other side, the Freedomists held that people are responsible for their actions, hence they are free to choose what actions to perform and hence to bring about the changes they want. True.

6. The Freedomist (why don’t you call them Mu'tazilah? Is that because you find Mu'tazilah are the best sect that represents Islam as Ahmad Amin in the 40's and Taha Elwani recently said?) position, as our scholars (who are “your scholars”, name them to me please, and I will show you that they are  against what you stated in your concepts, unless you mean Taha Jaber Elwani!) pointed out, would technically imply that people create their own deeds and their effects. But it cannot be that a thief acquires his own sustenance, or that an adulterous couple creates their own child. For Allah is the only provider of sustenance and the only creator (point 1d above).

7. Hence our scholars pointed out that the thief should not steal, but if he chooses to do so Allah may give him his sustenance in that way if it is His Universal Will (point 1c). Likewise, people should not commit adultery, but if they choose to do so Allah may give them children in the way that they have chosen. True.

8. Allah neither compels people to commit sins for which he would punish them nor does he delegate control of affairs to people. True.

A BRIEF STATEMENT OF BELIEF RELEVANT TO THE DISCUSSION AND OPEN FOR CRITICISM

1. Before creating a person Allah knew all the fixed events in this person’s life because Allah himself decided those events. The person will not be responsible for fixed events, or for any event beyond his control such as his place of birth. True.
2. Allah knew all the possibilities this person will face because Allah himself decided to offer these possibilities. The person will be responsible for the choice between possibilities. True.
3. A person can only make a choice; he cannot turn his choice into a reality. Only Allah can make that happen. If you mean the point that A’ashariyah say about “Creation of the Actions”, then it’s another point...see above 1.d.
4. Hence despite our limited free will even the events we choose are caused by Allah if He wills it, otherwise our choice remains a failed hope. Wrong, jumping to a conclusion that is not supported by the introduction! Wrong use of words … all what follows is based on a wrong introduction … what is “limited free will”? we agreed that only in the things such as birth and death and parents or involuntary physical functions of the body, Allah assigns these things to the person, other than that, the person has complete free will to choose. So, why use a term that can have an implied wrong conception? Why then confuse the issue of Allah creating the actions itself or people creating their actions in this point? This is a different point as stated before that is more related to bringing the action to reality. That has nothing to do with our own choice and the knowledge of Allah of it before hand. See, one mistake leads to the other, as Allah said: “Darkness over Darkness” 24-40.

ظُلُمَاتٌ بَعْضُهَا فَوْقَ بَعْضٍ

1. Because Allah has decided to preserve our free will, he may actualise some of our bad choices even though this would not please him. Hence everything happens according to his Universal Will (mashee‘ah kawneeyah) but his Will as expressed in the shariah (mashee‘ah shar‘eeyah) shows us what would please Him and what we ought to do. True, except that He actualizes (meaning Let it happen) all of our good and bad choices.
2. Allah wrote down His Qadar which should not be thought of as a single line of fixed events like accidents waiting to happen, but is more like a massive flowchart showing
   1. All the possible directions this person can take, and
   2. All the necessary events he must encounter, and
   3. All the results of his possible choices.
   4. Wrong, you missed the fourth one, which is:
      what the person will choose., failing to see that this is a necessary point to make Allah’s knowledge complete and comprehensive makes you go down that road of Bida'a. It is so simple that He SWT knows the choice we will make, but He does not interfere with it. Except when we discuss the point of A’ashariyah which is irrelevant to this discussion.
3. Nothing will happen except that which is in Allah’s Qadar. Yes as it is what He knew. It simply cannot go the other way … otherwise He did not know the right event.
4. Hence nothing will happen except that which Allah has known, planned, written, willed, and created. Yes.
5. What is written and known as a necessary event will necessarily happen and cannot be otherwise. Nothing is called necessary events! I don’t know where you find such categorization! This is part of the problem (new terminology and categorization!). Every event is necessary and is written as Allah SWT knew how it will be, small and big.
6. What is written and known as being conditional on the decision of Allah will not happen unless Allah decides it. Wrong again: confusion between the Shariah Will and the Universal Will! What do you mean by 'Allah decides it'? Allah Has already decided all His Universal decisions (Will), and has sent us His Shariah Will, and He wrote the book, with all details of what you call necessary and unnecessary events as they will happen in accordance with His knowledge of them happening, not because He is forcing them to happen.
7. Hence if something strikes us we can be sure that this was written, but if it is written conditionally it may not strike us unless Allah decides it. Confusion Again: what is 'written conditionally'? You keep revolving around the idea that Allah is the one that chooses for us (conditional event). You jump from the end of humans and reality (if something strikes..) to the other end of Allah (if it is written conditionally..). Lack of consistency … If the event happens, it is chosen by us and was approved to happen by the Universal Will of Allah and was written that it will happen, if it does not happen.
8. Some of such conditional events Allah will decide only if we choose them. Hence Allah will not cause us to do those acts for which He will punish us unless we freely choose them, in which case He will cause us to do them and then hold us responsible for the bad choice. Wrong: this concept of 'Allah Decides when' is twisted. Allah does not decide for any one. He SWT Knows before hand what choices we will choose. and He SWT writes them and they happen accordingly. There's a strong barrier between your mind and understanding this point.
9. Hence it may be written and known that a person will certainly get a certain sum of money but he can acquire it either by honest or dishonest means, a choice for which he will be responsible. Or it may be written that a person will get a child, either through a legitimate marriage or through illegitimate intercourse, a choice for which he will be responsible. It is also written already if he will have a child illegitimately or bad money … as per Allah’s comprehensive knowledge.

10. Allah has not made all of his decisions yet. Wrong and totally Haram and Zandaqah to say that! Subhana Allah! This leaves him free, He is free if He knew all the choices before hand and wrote it… and He is able to guarantee our own limited free will (again, fall down of the new terminology of limited free will!!) . Hence He decides some affairs before creation, some while the person is in the womb, some on Laylat al-Qadr, and some daily. Against His comprehensive knowledge. He said:

إِنَّا نَحْنُ نُحْيِي الْمَوْتَى وَنَكْتُبُ مَا قَدَّمُوا وَآثَارَهُمْ وَكُلَّ شَيْءٍ أحْصَيْنَاهُ فِي إِمَامٍ مُبِينٍ

Verily We shall give life to the dead, and We record that which they sent before and that which they leave behind, and of all things have We taken account in a clear Book (of evidence). 36-12. "record here as it happens not to make decisions or to know it is happening !!)

1. Allah will decide on the Day of Judgement (Yawm al-Fasl) where He wants to send us when He will give out freely from the 99 parts of mercy before Him. If He has already decided the results of a person, such as the case of Abu Lahab, this is because this person has already made so many bad choices that he has already failed his test early with no hope of recovery.
2. But no human is a failure before he or she even starts out in life. True, oo one is a failure before he/she starts..., but Allah Knows whether he/she will be a failure or not... different point … you have to understand this point to get out of your trap or closed circle. In Surat Al-kahf:

فَانطَلَقَا حَتَّى إِذَا لَقِيَا غُلَامًا فَقَتَلَهُ قَالَ أَقَتَلْتَ نَفْسًا زَكِيَّةً بِغَيْرِ نَفْسٍ لَّقَدْ جِئْتَ شَيْئًا نُّكْرًا

وَأَمَّا الْغُلَامُ فَكَانَ أَبَوَاهُ مُؤْمِنَيْنِ فَخَشِينَا أَن يُرْهِقَهُمَا طُغْيَانًا وَكُفْرًا ، فَأَرَدْنَا أَن يُبْدِلَهُمَا رَبُّهُمَا خَيْرًا مِّنْهُ زَكَاةً وَأَقْرَبَ رُحْمًا

"As for the youth, his parents were people of Faith, and we feared that he would grieve them by obstinate rebellion and ingratitude (to Allah and man). So we desired that their Lord would give them in exchange (a son) better in purity (of conduct) and closer in affection.”. Al-Kahf 18-80,81.

Allah SWT Has known that the boy will be a Kafir, and He wanted to exchange him for a better boy. He knew what choices the boy will make at a level of knowledge that can never be wrong or otherwise, as he actually took him back, otherwise He would be acused of being unjust, if the boy would have been proven good, some thing that would never happen. SO, here Allah swt has revealed his knowledge and acted upon it immediately as He postpone the punishment and rewards of Humans not waiting to see what they will do, and than make the decision, like company’s CEO! But because He wants it to actually happen and He Has the upper proof over every one as He stated in Quran: Al-A’anam 6-149

قُلْ فَلِلّهِ الْحُجَّةُ الْبَالِغَةُ فَلَوْ شَاء لَهَدَاكُمْ أَجْمَعِينَ

Dr. Tariq, I would like to receive your criticisms of these points after receiving which and considering your evidence I will make the necessary changes. I find that many people are in confusion over this subject because they think that Allah’s knowledge is like our knowledge in all respects. But please comment on the following statements on the uniqueness of Allah’s knowledge:

THE UNIQUENESS (misleading word to cover the astray limitation to Allah’s Knowledge as we will see afterwards) OF ALLAH’S KNOWLEDGE

1. 1. His knowledge is perfect; ours is imperfect.

   1. Hence when we say that He knows something we mean it cannot be otherwise.

   2. But when we say we know something we do not exclude the possibility that we may be wrong.

2. We know things around us by finding out what they are; Allah knows them by willing them into being. Wrong: this is a confusion between the Will of Allah and the Knowledge of Allah. Another Bida'a. You are omitting an attribute of Allah already.

   1. Hence if we do not know that a thing exists this is because of our lack of knowledge, for such a thing may indeed exist

   2. But if Allah does not know that a thing exists this is because the thing does not exist. Wrong use of words in reference to Allah. This is the doomed result of using such logic with Quran and Sunnah and Elm Al-Kalam, instead of relying on Quran. Allah would know what and how would be the thing that you say it did not exist, even it did not exist. This is our Allah, How about Yours?

3. We know the future by trying to find out what Allah decided it to be; Allah knows the future by deciding what it will be. Wrong: He knows the future whether He dictates it such as in the compulsory events as we’ve mentioned before, or in the actions of humans that they will choose with their own free will.

   1. Hence if we do not know what a future event will be this is an indication of our limitation

   2. But if Allah does not know what a future event will be this is an indication that He has decided to leave it hovering between possibilities. Wrong, your are limiting His Knowledge no matter how you put it. Again, my Allah knows all outcomes and all events in the future NOW, as they will happen. The word “does not know” is not applicable to him.

4. If we delay our decision that is because we do not know what the future holds; if Allah delays His decision this is to preserve his own freedom and guarantee our limited free will. For if a matter has his final decision then even he is not free to change it, and if he is free to change it then it does not have his final decision. Wrong conclusion based on wrong introductions: again, He SWT knows what will happen. Using words like decision and limited will and the likes are confusing and misleading. Nothing limits His freedom SWT. He said He would make every one a believer, but He chose not to. He already chose that, and He knows who will be and who will follow Shaytan, with their own will. Don’t put the decision of Allah in the middle to show as if you are giving Him more attributes. You are not. You are actually taking away from His attributes. This is exactly the position of Mu'tazilah who denied the attributes of Allah while they thought they are making Him greater.

ARGUMENTS SHOWING THAT MY POSITION DOES NOT IMPLY A LIMITATION IN ALLAH’S KNOWLEDGE

TEXTUAL EVIDENCE

The Qur’an contains two sets of verses relating to our subject:

1. Verses showing that Allah knows everything, and

2. Verses which say that Allah does not know yet who will strive in his way. Wrong: There is no contradiction in Quran. It is in Ahlul Bida'a's understanding. Allah Knows who will strive in his way, and who will not

3. Now our first steps in Quranic interpretation is

   1. To let the Quran interpret itself, such that the one set of verses is understood in the light of the other.

   2. To reconcile an apparent contradiction by finding a way in which the literal (Wrong start: Literal does not mean the obvious common understanding of the word. You have to study Arabic and Balagha to understand. If Literal is taken literally, then we would assume Allah SWT has Hands like ours; as Hand literally means a hand like ours. As scholars of Tafseer and Usool Al-Fiqh stated: Quran verses have to be understood in the light of what the Arabs used to use in their own tongue as Quran is revealed in their language, and they have a way to interpret it and this way goes with their ways of Balagha, see all books of Usool Al-fiqh. Even Ibn Hazm, the Imam of Literalism, did not go that far to use this in reference to the attributes of Allah!) meaning of both sets of verses is preserved.

The solution (for what? No problem to Ahlul Sunnah. This is a faked problem with a made up solution!!) is as follows:

1. Allah knows everything

2. He gave a servant a choice of either fighting for His sake or fleeing the battle.

3. He knows both possibilities.

4. Each possibility is real.

5. Allah knows that each possibility is real.

6. Hence he knows each possibility as a real possibility.

Dr. Tariq, you have agreed that if Allah knows the final choice between the two possibilities then the choice would be fixed (yes fixed in terms of that it will happen not in terms that Allah decided it for the person) , and could not be otherwise (yes, it is already known to HIM as written in Al-Lawh Al-Mahfouz, but only to Him hence these assumptions are not real). Hence the other possibility would not be a real possibility (they are very real to the person, and can be achieved if he decides to choose any of them, the point is that he chooses whatever he chooses and Allah knew that he will choose one of them. If you say that the two possibilities are not real, or that they have no meaning if one is known to Allah, then the Quran is playing when Allah says: We have shown him the two ways: either thankful or unbeliever 76-3), and even though they would seem real to the servant, what Allah knows would be the true reality.

In conclusion,

1. Allah knows everything.

2. Everything includes the past, present, and future.

3. Hence Allah knows the past, present, and future.

4. The future includes fixed events.

5. Hence Allah knows all the fixed events.

6. The future also includes the real possibilities that Allah will put before us.

7. Hence Allah also knows all the real possibilities.

8. The verses which seem to deny the knowledge of Allah actually are consistent with Allah’s knowledge of all the possibilities.

9. Hence these verses are consistent with Allah’s knowledge of everything.

10. Hence there is no need to turn these verses away from their literal meaning.

Logic to serve the point that you have fixed in your mind. I can build tens of such logic with supporting evidence using twisted interpretations and literal understanding as well.

Some people may still have the feeling at this point that if we take the verses literally that would seem to say that there is something that Allah does not know. But what should be understood is that what is being spoken of here is an undecided event, and hence the decision of this event’s outcome is not an object of knowledge (misleading statement: anything that will take place in the future is a subject of knowledge). For if the outcome is known then it would be decided. Hence we should say:

1. Allah knows everything

2. Everything means every object of knowledge

3. Hence Allah knows every object of knowledge (you are creating terms and concepts to support Bida'a ideas. Everything that is or CAN BE is subject of Allah’s knowledge.)

4. The outcome of an undecided event is not an object of knowledge as a fact but as a possibility. (Wrong. Everything is subject of His knowledge. This is our Allah.)

5. Hence Allah knows the outcome of an undecided event not as a fact, but as a possibility, and

6. This does not imply any limitation in the knowledge of Allah. (Definite limitation even if you choose not to see it. Others including all of Ahlul Sunnah (not Taha Elwani!) see it this way in the past and present.)

A note on Tabari’s Tafseer of 3:142:

Dr. Tariq, I think you have answered my question in showing that

1. The text of 3:142 literally says that Allah does not know yet who will strive in His way,

2. Imam at-Tabari, may Allah have mercy on him, was right in saying that “to know” is not used in the meaning of “to see” in Arabic literature,

3. Hence the decision to adopt a non-literal meaning of this verse is based on an assumption about the knowledge of Allah: an assumption that the verse could not mean what it says, for surely Allah knows, and then

4. Efforts are made to find a suitable non-literal meaning for the verse.

5. Then a variety of explanations are offered, none of them satisfactory judging from the fact that so many opinions have been produced on this, and Tabari himself does not settle for the simple solution of saying it means “to see” as suggested by Ibn Abbas, may Allah be pleased with him.

You have a BIG problem not knowing Arabic. Al-Tabari’s answer does not by any means support your argument! If you understand that way, I have already wasted my time!. However, There is difference between the Mafhoum of a word (which encompasses the shadows of the word) where it can be used as it means the different possible uses of it and Taweel (or creating a new meaning of it) where you try to create a meaning to suit the concept in your mind. Both Al-Tabari and Ibn Abbas saw these words as: either to see (in reference to the fact that He will watch what they will be doing to be a proof against them. Seeing is a result of knowing in reality), or to bring it about (in reference to that fact that He brings it about so they know, not Allah). Al-Tabari was very clear in what he said. I don’t know why you skipped his words where he explicitly said it means to know literally, but in a shadow and context that goes with Muhkam of the comprehensiveness of the knowledge of Allah. It was as follows:

القول فـي تأويـل قوله تعالـى:{وَلَقَدْ فَتَنّا الّذِينَ مِن قَبْلِهِمْ فَلَيَعْلَمَنّ اللّهُ الّذِينَ صَدَقُواْ وَلَيَعْلَمَنّ الْكَاذِبِينَ } العنكبوت 3.

“We did test those before them, and Allah will certainly know those who are true from those who are false.” 29-3

Al-Tabari said (Arabic):

يقول تعالـى ذكره: … فكذلك ابتلـينا أتبـاعك بـمخالفـيك من أعدائك فَلَـيَعْلَـمَنّ اللّهُ الّذِينَ صَدَقُوا منهم فـي قـيـلهم آمنا وَلَـيَعْلَـمَنّ الكاذِبِـين منهم فـي قـيـلهم ذلك ، والله عالـم بذلك منهم قبل الاختبـار ، وفـي حال الاختبـار, وبعد الاختبـار ، ولكن معنى ذلك : ولَـيُظْهِرَنّ الله صدق الصادق منهم فـي قـيـله آمنا بـالله من كذب الكاذب منهم بـابتلائه إياه بعدوّه ، لـيعلـم صدقه من كذبه أولـياؤه ، علـى نـحو ما قد بـيّناه فـيـما مضى قبلُ . فـي قـيـله آمنا بـالله من كذب الكاذب منهم بـابتلائه إياه بعدوّه

Al-Tabari said:

“Allah SWT said: … and we have tested your followers with those who went against them of your enemies, so Allah would know those who are truthful in what they say and those who are liars in what they say. And Allah knows that of them, before the test, and during the test and after the test, but it means (to know) to reveal those who are truthful in saying that he is a believer and reveal the lies of the liars as being tested with his enemy, so His (Allah’s) A’awliyaa know who is lying, as we have explained before”.

Subhana Allah! no trace in Al-Tabari’s words of such Bida'a whatsoever. In fact he has been very careful in stating exactly what he means when he said: “And Allah knows that of them, before the test, and during the test and after the test”.

Dr. Tariq, please understand that I did not refer to Tabari to say that he agrees with my explanation of Qadar. I was only relying on him for his knowledge of the Arabic language and for his knowledge of tafseer to the extent that he did not depart from his own high standards of scholarly investigation. In this case his explanation of the verse is based on a faulty philosophical assumption that the future is known as being fully and finally fixed. Based on this assumption he decided that the verse 3:142 and others which seem to say that Allah does not yet know cannot mean what they say. Then he tries to offer explanations which are not convincing. His explanation that Allah wants his awliyaa’ to know merit these two comments:

1. The statement ‘Umar conquered a certain land’ could in fact mean that

   1. Umar did it alone, or

   2. Umar did it together with his troops, or

   3. His troops did it without him but he nevertheless gets the credit.
      From the statement itself there is no reason to assume that only the third meaning is intended. By way of comparison, if we are to follow Tabari’s argument, the verses which say “Allah does not know yet” could mean:

   4. Allah needs to know, or

   5. Allah and his awliyaa’ need to know, or

   6. Allah’s awliyaa’ alone need to know.
      Tabari has assumed the third possibility without providing good grounds for rejecting the first and second possibilities. (the grounds for that is what you don’t want to submit to: the Muhkam of the comprehensiveness of the knowledge of Allah. This is your problem for the tenth time . You don’t deal with the Quran this way, you are not Al-Tabari, or actually any one for that matter You are making logical arguments with so limited knowledge of basic sciences such as Usool and no knowledge of Arabic and its literature and Balagha. There is a ground for that, but you just don’t see it. I explained it over and over, the assumption is that the knowledge of Allah covers every single thing including the choices to be made and which one of them to be chosen. You are now opposing Ibn A’abas and Al-Tabari, in spite of the fact that you used his name in your second comments as support for your argument!

2. Tabari and others in their tafseers pursue meanings in harmony with their position that the future is fully and finally fixed because Allah decided it to be that way (no, because He knew it will be that way….please comprehend). If we accept that position then we can accept their interpretation of these verses. But since I do not accept that position, neither do I accept their treatment of the verses, and I am able to see that the literal meaning of the verses is just fine. I deal with their position later under the heading: Scenario 1.

The position I have outlined above saves us from making assumptions about the knowledge of Allah, for Allah knows best what He knows. In a matter such as this we should just take what He says for we do not know more than Him about His own knowledge. And by assuming that Allah surely knows when He says He does not, many verses are brushed aside in a single sweep. This is unnecessary if what I have explained is correct. But if what I have said is not correct, and it is necessary to apply a non-literal meaning to so many verses at once, then we should rethink our approach to Quranic tafseer and start applying non-literal meanings more widely.

REASONABLE PROOF

That my position does not limit the knowledge of Allah can be shown from the following logical argument:

Logical Argument Showing That Allah Knows the Possibilities as Possibilities:

These kinds of Arguments are against Sunnah and they are merely traps of Shaytan. One can build hundreds of these logics. This is merely following Mutashabihat and leaving Muhkamat which is again the comprehensive knowledge of Allah.

1. In my last moment of life it will be possible for me to choose Iman

2. In my last moment of life it will also be possible for me to choose Kufr.

3. Therefore there are two possibilities for me. (point 1 + point 2)

4. Allah knows everything,

5. Therefore Allah knows that there are two possibilities for me. (point 3 + point 4)
   And, to be sure,

   1. Allah also knows which choice I will make, without making me obliged to choose it; meaning that he knows how the happy or bad ending will be. His knowledge is that extensive.

6. Therefore Allah knows that it will be possible for me to choose Iman. (point 1 + point 4)

7. Likewise Allah knows that it will be possible for me to choose Kufr. (point 2 + point 4)

8. Conclusion: Therefore Allah knows both possibilities. (point 3 + point 4)
   What you did not Add:

9. Allah also knows that in the last moment of your life which choice you will make, Iman or Kufr, and He already wrote it and you will choose at the last moment of your life with your own will what he has chosen (5.a)

10. Conclusion: Allah knows everything comprehensively, and you have chosen what you wanted, and also what was written (point 1 + point 2 + point 4 + point 5 + point 5.a).

How hard is this for God's sake?!

Hence the conclusion that Allah knows possibilities as possibilities follows from points number 1 and 2 both of which are generally accepted beliefs among Muslims, and point 4 which is also a generally accepted belief (with Ahlul Sunnah it is accepted in that sense, with Ahlul Bida'a it is accepted with whatever twisted meaning). If this argument is a bit of twisted logic please show the specific point at which it takes a wrong turn. But according to the rules of logic, if 1, 2, and 4 are true, then the conclusion in 8 is certainly true.

You have also asked me to show that it is logical contradiction to assert the conclusion of #8 above, and also to hold that Allah knows the actual choice that will be made between #1 and #2 above. Here is a humble attempt:

Logical Argument Showing That if Allah Knows the Actual Choice Between Two Alternatives the Other Alternative Becomes Impossible:

1. In the last moment of life I will face two alternatives: choose iman; or choose kufr.

2. What Allah knows cannot be contradicted.

3. Either Allah knows that I will choose iman or Allah knows that I will choose kufr.

4. If Allah knows that I will choose iman, then I must choose iman, and I cannot choose kufr. (2 + 3)
   Moreover,

5. If Allah knows that I will choose kufr, then I must (wrong: you “must” here in the sense that you will definitely do that not in the sense that you are obliged to do it, so be careful) choose kufr and I cannot choose iman. (2 + 3)

6. Conclusion: Therefore if Allah knows the actual choice between two alternatives then I must choose it and I cannot choose the other alternative. (4 + 5) Wrong again: conclusion based on a false argument.

One who sees a problem in the conclusion arrived at in #6 will notice that the fault lies in #3, for it asserts that the result of an undecided event (in 1: the future choice between iman and kufr) is known.

Since we accept that at my last moment both alternatives will be possible, we must also accept that this is an undecided event (NO: it is just a false argument. I explained ten time above, both alternatives are possible, both alternatives are open for the person to choose. He will indeed choose, Allah knows already what he will chose and He SWT wrote it, and it cannot happen otherwise because of His knowledge not that He obliged one to do it, you are fighting a losing battle) and hence that it is known as being undecided (It is undecided for the humans, but it is “known to Allah";not decided by Him in terms of forcing a decision. It is the use of words that is confusing you all over the place).

This point could be established from another direction.

1. Premise: It will either rain or shine tomorrow

2. If there is a 50% chance of rain, then there is also a 50% chance of shine, hence a 50/50 split, and both are equally possible.

3. If there is a 60/40 split between the two alternatives, then rain is more possible than shine.

4. If there is a 90/10 split then rain is very likely and shine is very unlikely.

5. If there is a 100/0 split then rain is certain and shine is impossible.

6. Therefore if anyone knows 100% that it will rain tomorrow then we must say that it is impossible for it to shine tomorrow.

Likewise:

1. Premise: I will either choose iman or kufr.

2. If there is a 50% chance of my choosing iman, then there is also a 50% chance of my choosing kufr, hence a 50/50 split, and both are equally possible.

3. If there is a 60/40 split between the two alternatives, then iman is more possible than kufr.

4. If there is a 90/10 split then iman is very likely and kufr is very unlikely.

5. If there is a 100/0 split then iman is certain and kufr is impossible.

6. Therefore if anyone knows 100% that I will choose iman then we must say that it is impossible for me to choose kufr.

I will answer this by stating the verse of Quran:

انظُرْ كَيْفَ ضَرَبُواْ لَكَ الأَمْثَالَ فَضَلُّواْ فَلاَ يَسْتَطِيعْونَ سَبِيلاً

"See what kinds of comparisons they make for you! But they have gone astray, and never a way will they be able to find!" 17-48.

These examples are only good for Satanic purposes. Allah’s Knowledge and Wisdom and Will and all attributes that cannot and should not be measured by such examples (أمثال). Allah SWT said: “to Allah applies the highest similitude; for He is the Exalted in Power, Full of Wisdom.”. 16-60.

وَلِلّهِ الْمَثَلُ الأَعْلَىَ وَهُوَ الْعَزِيزُ الْحَكِيمُ

And He said:

فَلاَ تَضْرِبُواْ لِلّهِ الأَمْثَالَ إِنَّ اللّهَ يَعْلَمُ وَأَنتُمْ لاَ تَعْلَمُونَ

“Invent not examples for Allah: for Allah knoweth, and ye know not.” 16-74.

It is not useful to make examples for the attributes of Allah and measure it with such functions. It is a trap. I have shown you how wrong this is in the previous steps you have made. So, please stop using examples for the attributes of Allah. It only makes you go even further away from Allah.

From here on, it is useless and pointless arguments which again fall under the previous prohibition of:

فَلاَ تَضْرِبُواْ لِلّهِ الأَمْثَالَ إِنَّ اللّهَ يَعْلَمُ وَأَنتُمْ لاَ تَعْلَمُونَ

“Invent not examples for Allah: for Allah knoweth, and ye know not.” 16-74.

You don’t quote Hadith and you restore to such examples that are so weak and pointless? Where is Hadith and Quran in your replies? Where are the quotes of the great scholars of tafseer or the great Ahlul Sunnah scholars over history that you have rejected or ignored (after saying May Allah have mercy of them, so one would think you really have respect for them!) You just draw such steps from a less than knowledgeable mind and want people to listen to that and think you are responsible to spread this among them. You wish that I would adopt this stray logic and spread it (Hasha Lillah)! I am giving you a word of advice for your own interest: Wake up…before it is too late.

AVOIDING ARISTOTLE’S MISTAKE

Dr. Tariq if you allow me I will try to clarify a further point on the logic here. We need to avoid the mistakes of the philosophers regardless of how great they were. Aristotle, though being called the father of philosophy nevertheless committed a blunder that became famous and is refuted by modern scholars. But his mistake is a common one and is evident from a person who asks: “Does Allah know what will happen?” This question entails:

1. Something will happen, so

2. Does Allah know it?

The answer to this question, then, is: “Yes, of course! If something will happen then surely Allah knows it.”

But consider the difference between these two statements:

1. Something will happen.

2. Something will happen if it is the will of Allah.

To Aristotle the first statement is a fact. To a Muslim the first statement is not technically true, for everything depends on the will of Allah. The second statement, then, is the truth. But this is a conditional fact. Hence we should say that Allah knows that what He wills will happen. Hence

1. If Allah has decided that something will happen it must happen. And

2. If He has decided that something will not happen it cannot happen. And

3. If He has decided that something will remain suspended between two possibilities until He gives it his final decision, then it remains undecided, and:

   1. Allah knows the something, and

   2. Allah knows the two possibilities, and

   3. Allah knows that the something hovers between the two possibilities, and

   4. There is nothing that Allah does not know.

To illustrate the point further, consider that a ball is hovering in the air. A scientist says that the ball must fall due to the law of gravity. A Muslim says that the ball cannot fall without the permission of Allah, but will remain suspended mid-air. Now suppose that the ball is in position to fall either on spot A or on spot B. Someone asks: Does Allah know where this ball will fall? Answer: If Allah wants it to fall on spot A He knows it; and if he wants it to fall on spot B He knows it; and if he wants it to fall on an entirely different spot, say C, then He knows it, but he may not want it to fall on any spot, but to keep it suspended. Or He may cause it to explode in mid-air. Now if Allah decides to keep it suspended we cannot ask if He knows which is the spot on which it will fall, for it will not fall.

Likewise, a person will either end up in Paradise or Hell. Both places are written for him, both are known as possibilities, but the actual position is undecided and known as being undecided. Moreover, Allah may wipe out the entire creation and bring a new creature in our stead, in which case we instantly vanish into nothingness and do not actually go anywhere. So it would be fallacious to ask, “Does Allah know where a person is going?”

In sum, if Allah knows what He will decide, then He has in fact already decided it; and if He has not decided it, then He knows it just the way He left it: undecided.

A THOUGHT EXPERIMENT: Attempting to design a robot who chooses his path

Dr. Tariq you were correct in noting that we are not robots. If follows that if we are to suggest an analogy with Allah’s act of creating us, it would be helpful to think of attempting to design not a mechanical robot, but an intelligent robot who chooses his path through life. Consider the following thought experiment in which we attempt three levels of complexity:

LEVEL 1

Purpose:

We design a robot who chooses his own path. He will scan the available options and his mind will lock into a path. Then we will steer him by remote control into the path it has chosen.

Notes:

Some paths lead to happiness; others lead to misery. We know what we are designing, and what he will choose. Having compassion for our product, we decide to give him a mind that will choose a path leading to happiness. We design many such robots. We map out in advance all the available options they will have, and the precise path each will take. Each choose its precise path leading to happiness, and we cooperate by steering them in that direction.

Problem:

These robots do not actually fulfil our purpose. They do not actually follow their own chosen paths, but they can only follow the paths to happiness which we have decided for them in advance. We need to move to level 2.

LEVEL 2

Purpose:

Improve the design such that the robots will each have a mind that could follow any of the available paths.

Notes:

We realize that some will follow the paths leading to happiness and others will follow the paths leading to misery. We are not pleased to have some of our products end up in misery, but this seems unavoidable if we want them to be truly free to choose their own paths. In keeping with our purpose, we can try various ways of influencing them to choose the paths to happiness, but we cannot force their selection. We can predict in advance which robots will take which path. After designing them we see that they each choose exactly the path that was foreknown, and we steer them according to their choices, taking some to happiness, others to misery.

Problem:

These robots do not fulfil our purpose either. For we ourselves select which robots to design. We have a mental image of a robot knowing that if we design this one it will choose the path to happiness, and we design it. It is obvious that we are creating this one to experience happiness. Likewise we envision a robot which will choose misery if we design him. If we actually design him, we are in fact designing him for misery. We can of course, design only those which we know will choose the paths to happiness, but that takes us back to level one.

On the other hand, we can continue to design the ones that will choose the paths to misery and try to influence them to choose the other path. But we cannot escape the problem, for since we know all their choices we already know which ones will refuse our attempts and continue to choose the path to misery. If we design these ones we have the same problem in that we knowingly designed them to experience misery. Now we can hardly look them in the face while trying to influence them, for we know that in the end they will choose misery, and that we knew that if we designed them as they are this is what they would choose.

On the other hand we could have changed their individual designs such that they too would choose the path to happiness, but then we are back to level 1 again. We need to advance to level 3.

LEVEL 3

Purpose:

Introduce a completely new design such that the robots will make unpredictable choices within the limited range of paths already mapped out. Then we would move them within the map if it be our will.

Notes:

Now these robots are truly free to choose. We do not know their choices in advance of designing them, for there is nothing in our design that leads to one choice over another. We have designed them in a neutral way such that they could develop their own personalities which we will try to influence towards the paths leading to happiness. Whatever path they choose is truly by their own choice, for it was neither determined nor could it be known in advance of their creation.

Now the fact that we do not know what they will choose is not a limitation in us, but in fact the flip side of our decision to make their choices unpredictable. For if we want to predict their choices we can keep them at level two. In fact, we have achieved a higher level of product, a completely new design that broke the barrier of mechanism and develops independently into an unpredictable mind.

Yet we have full control over what we have designed. He cannot move an inch until we move him. He can only make choices within a predictable range; he cannot bring about the effect of his choice. We move him according to his choices, but only if that agrees with our will.

Dr. Tariq I hope I have demonstrated with this analogy that the level 3 design is not a limitation on the designer, but a limitation of logic: for a thing cannot be predictable and unpredictable at the same time. I would like to get your response to this analogy. Please criticize it showing the specific ways if any in which it fails to demonstrate the point intended. I would now like to look at the real fact of Allah creating humans and consider the scenarios that in some way correspond to the three levels in our analogy.

THREE SCENARIOS THAT ATTEMPT TO ILLUSTRATE QADAR Again giving examples to Allah’s attributes, but I will refute it, for the sake of the students who are reading this, and who knows, Maybe you will benefit as well.

The matter may become clear if we consider these three scenarios, the first of which I understand you will not accept, and the third of which is now under consideration:

SCENARIO 1: PREDESTINATION (not accepted by Ahlul Sunnah)

This scenario became widely accepted in Islam from the second century of Islam onwards. It was adopted by the classical tafseers and by many of the classical scholars including Ibn Taymiyyah and Ibn al-Qayyim al-Jawziyyah.

Allah decides before creating humans what each person will do and where each person will end up. Hence the future until the day of judgement is fully and finally fixed because of Allah’s decision (wrong because of Allah's Knowledge, and Ibn Taymiyah never said or wrote anything about pre-destination in the fashion that you and westerners use it … lack of reading again) . And Allah wrote His decision in a book (using “a” here means that you don’t believe in the Al-Lawh Al-Mahfouz which is proven in both Quran and Sunnah! “Darkness over Darkness” as Allah said.) Each person will look around at the different options available, deliberate between options, but can only choose what has been predestined. He is considered to be guilty for his bad choices because he did not know at the time of making it that he was predestined to make that choice.

Possible objections we may have to answer if we advance Scenario 1:

1. After making the choice the servant will realise that he was predestined to make that choice. (what does this mean? How will a person know He was predestined? He is not predestined! He has chosen from all the possible alternatives. No predestination. You assumed that and now you are building scenarios on these false basis. Allah knew he will choose that and it is written in THE Book, but the person did it without any dictation form Allah. So, this is a wrong assumption and a wrong conclusion). And even though at the time of making it he was sure he was making it freely, he now realises that he could not have chosen otherwise (He could have chosen otherwise, he just did not want to … major misunderstanding again.) and hence he is not really responsible for making a bad choice which he could not have avoided. Hence he could not have avoided the last accident he had, nor could he have avoided saying anything that he said or doing anything he did, or thinking about anything he thought about.
2. It turns out that what a person thought was his true experience of free will is in fact an illusion (Wrong conclusion based on a wrong assumption.)
3. Allah will not now send prophets to these individuals to tell them how to behave, for he already decided how each must behave. Even if He had decided that he will send prophets to them He had also decided how they will respond to the prophets, and hence where they will end up (Allah Knows what every one did and doing and will do, and what would occur  if he had chosen another choice. He wrote things as they will happen WITH NO COMPULSORY FORCE OVER PEOPLE TO DO IT, BUT JUST KNOWING WHAT THEY WILL CHOSE! WHAT IS SO HARD ABOUT THAT?!).
4. Allah will not create life as a test, but as a proof, for the test results are already fixed, and now what Allah needs is to be able to prove to his creatures that they deserve his punishment. This of course goes against the interest of humans and will be contrary to Allah’s desire to ensure human interest.
5. Allah will not punish people for failing the test, because he actually created them to fail. For first he decided who will fail and then he created them.
6. Since the future up until the day of judgment is fully and finally fixed then even Allah cannot change it, but if he can change it, then it is not actually fixed.

All of the above are merely wrong conclusions based on wrong assumptions as explained, so no meaning to repeat.

SCENARIO 2: DIVINE FOREKNOWLEDGE OF WHAT WILL BE CHOSEN

In view of all the problems noted with Scenario 1, Allah does not dictate in advance what people will do. He creates them free to do what they want within a limited range of freedom. But since Allah has perfect knowledge he knows before creating each person what each person will choose. He decided not to interfere with their choices, and he wrote down what he knew his creatures will do and where they will end up. But since Allah already knew what each person will choose, and where each person will end up, they now cannot choose other than what Allah knew they would choose, and they cannot end up other than where Allah knew they would end up (They WILL NOT, not they CANNOT.  There's a BIG difference. This is the difference between Ahlul Sunnah and Ahlul Bida'a, PLEASE don’t jump from a statement to a conclusion that is not supported by the assumption) This, however, is acceptable (No it is not acceptable, it is not a game we can accept different outcomes if they seem to go with one’s mind! This is religion Mr. Ally) since the results are according to the choices of the individuals themselves. Hence they cannot blame Allah, but must blame themselves. Hence the future is fully and finally fixed because Allah knew what it would be and Allah’s knowledge cannot be wrong.

Possible objections we may have to answer if we should hold to Scenario 2: (It is not acceptable. Period. with no comments. It is just waste of time.)

1. This scenario by implication is similar to the first. Here is why: Allah did not have to create an individual who He knew would fail the test. He could have known of another individual who would pass and could have created him instead. By creating this one, He is deliberately creating this one knowing that He is creating a failure and hence creating him to actually fail. Since Allah had perfect knowledge of what this person will choose and where he would end up, his choices and his final place must conform to that knowledge.

2. The concept of Allah’s knowledge in this scenario introduces two new problems:

   1. That the future is fixed due to the decisions of the creatures and Allah’s passive acceptance of it. This is a view rejected by our classical scholars on the basis that this delegates control to the creatures (and hence violates our points of agreement on Qadar #8). The way out of this is to say that Allah was selective in creating, thus creating only those who He knew would choose the results He wanted, but this, as already pointed out, is in effect back to Scenario 1.

   2. Another problem is the one pointed out by Dr. Muhammad Iqbal (see my Letter to Scholars, Jan. 2003, pp. 6-7). For if Allah cannot help but know the future, then he also knows what he will decide, which means he has already decided everything, and that even He is not free to change it

   3. This is a greater problem than #5 in Scenario 1 above, for whereas the writing fixes the future up to the day of judgement, the knowledge fixes all of the future to infinity. But if Allah is free to change it, and certainly He is, then it is not fixed, and we must consider scenario 3.

   4. Wrong approach, wrong words, and wrong concepts. Please, read Quran with an open heart, read Hadith and leave the non-sense that Al-Bokhari and Muslim are not necessarily right and assume the obvious: you have no qualifications to make any ruling in any Islamic subject whatsoever, don’t think that writing these paragraphs means that you are eligible to write or talk about Islamic subjects! No, you are not. Any one now-a-days who has a center gives himself the right to talk about Islam and make himself an Imam and reject and/or accept Hadith or tafseer as he pleases. Although he might keep saying “just words”: oh, no, don’t understand me wrong, I am not an Imam, I am just a student, I know my limits, I want to learn...these are all not true. He is saying these things while preaching to people about Islam: a religion that he maybe knows less about than accounting or engineering!)

SCENARIO 3: DIVINE KNOWLEDGE CORRESPONDS TO DIVINE DECISION

The refutation of that is the subject of all my comments above and the comments in my previous notes. I find no use to keep repeating what I have stated before.

In considering the possible objections to the first two scenarios above, it may appear that if these are the only two scenarios available then Allah cannot really create a human who would be free to choose his own path, for every time he decides to create an individual he would know the final destination of that individual and that individual’s fate will be sealed. The way out of this impasse was suggested by Dr. Muhammad Iqbal, and his approach to this problem has been followed widely as already noted in my letter. He suggested that Allah’s knowledge is related to His decision, so that what he knows about the future is what He has decided it to be.

In this case we would say that Allah created humans with a mind that will make unpredictable choices within a limited range. Then Allah, if it is His Will, will take each person in the direction which that person chooses. This would be comparable to level 3 in our thought experiment above. It does mean that Allah cannot predict what a person will choose before creating this person, but He can map out all the possible choices. And if he wants a particular outcome he can fix it and know it. Hence a person’s life could have to arrive at certain fixed points with flexible paths in between points. In this case if a person’s rizq is fixed the way of obtaining it may not be fixed. And if a person’s death is fixed the manner of his death may not be fixed. Or if his spouse is predetermined the details of negotiations leading up to that marriage does not have to be fixed. This leaves a lot open for the person to be answerable for, and satisfies the basic need of our study: To explain Qadar in such a way that while we affirm the complete knowledge and power of Allah we simultaneously hold that there are at least some choices of a person that are not fixed in advance of his being created, and for which he is answerable.

We should add that the basic flaw of the first two scenarios is that they do not really strike the balance between freedom and compulsion. They actually are disguised compulsionism with one foot in the freedomist camp. For when it is needed to claim that we do indeed have free choice the fact of our free choice known from experience is highlighted. But when that claim is not in focus one holding the first two scenarios actually argue that everything is fixed and final, and that there is nothing anyone can do about it. It is true, however, that their actual behaviour is as if they held to the third scenario knowing that some things are fixed and some are open. It is this third scenario that truly describes the position of the Ahl as-Sunnah wa al-Jamaa‘ah.

This third scenario has the advantage of showing that it really is a fact that Allah has created us with a limited free will. It holds that while Allah knows all the options a person will confront He does not know before creating a person which of the options the person will choose, unless He has also decided what the person will choose. This then makes sense of life and of the afterlife.

This scenario has scientific and philosophical support (You think so, I have shown you in earlier that there are missing links in your steps. You only like it, that is all, with no support from Quran or Sunnah (if you believe in Sunnah). I just don’t bather with going after every delusion someone puts together to establish a new Aqida and try to show the weaknesses. Time is much more important than wasting it like that) As for science, Newtonian physics has been supplanted at the quantum level with new advances showing that sub-atomic particles behave in unpredictable ways. This has been formulated as the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle, and is upheld as reason for overthrowing the old concept of scientific determinism (why are you dragging this to what we discuss here?! It is wrong to apply any theory to Quranic principles because theories, by default, are temporary and no one knows when they will be changed. For instance, what was assumed to be definite and constant is the speed of light as proven by Einstein and was used by all prominent scholars of Theoretical physics, such as Steven Hawking, is not after all, constant. It was found just a few months ago by a group of scientists who work with the prominent Australian scholar Paul Daives (author of The Mind of God, 1992) that light travels with different speeds. They say that the implication of that is enormous and cannot be known yet. How can you count on that level of science to judge Allah’s knowledge accordingly? Moreover, what you think is new “the uncertainty principle is way old! Werner Heisnberg introduced it in 1927. So, are we going to wait for another discovery to adjust the attributes of Allah? Do we go after Hawkings and Heinsberg and leave Al-Boukhari and Muslim and the Sunnah and Hadith of the prophet PBUH? Is that your Deen? I think so. However, this is not the approach of Ahlul Sunnah to run after theories that change with time all the time.). As for philosophy, the view of Aristotle that the future is fixed has now been shown to be flawed (we follow the Hadith and Quran not the losers like Aristotle and the likes. We are content with what Allah SWT gave us as the Prophet said: “I have left you with two things, if you hold tight to you will never go astray: The book of Allah and my Sunnah” That is your problem. You let go of both and followed Heinsberg, and your own mind!! Subhana Allah), for it is recognized that if something will happen tomorrow it is only conditionally so, and is not already a fact to be known.

Dr. Tariq, I have found that this third scenario gives us quite an advantage in dealing with skeptics and atheists. And a recent debate has demonstrated this. I knew from my opponent’s previous writings, which are published on the web, that if I represented either scenarios 1 or 2 he would chew me to pieces and say some awful things about Allah (as he does on his website). On the other hand, when I represented scenario 3 he was speechless. I hope that you will help me to polish whatever rough points you may notice in this scenario and train me to use if with even greater force in the defense of Allah against those who dare to accuse Him of injustice.

Mr. Ally: we don’t establish Our Aqida in a fashion that makes it more acceptable to atheists! This is again a wrong approach. We understand our Aqida from Quran and Sunnah, and the sayings of the companions and the understanding of the great Imams of Ahlul Sunnah who knew and studies much much more than any of us, and had much higher IQ for sure. So, If you think that such scenarios did not occur to Ibn Taymiyah, just go and look up some pages of his great work of “The agreement between the straight/right logic and the Correct transfer “of Sunnah” (موافقة صريح المعقول لصحيح المنقول). He has ten volumes of refuting many of such claims that were made by Ahlul Bida'a all over the history of Islam.

Possible objection:

1. This seems to limit the knowledge of Allah, for He would not know a person’s choice until the person makes it.

Possible answer:

1. This actually shows Allah’s power to create a person who has genuine free will, for
   1. If Allah creates a person whose choices are predictable, then He will know the choices, and
   2. Since the knows the choices the choices have to correspond to the knowledge of it,
   3. Therefore a person with predictable choices cannot really be free.
   4. Therefore for a person’s choices to be really free they have to be random.
   5. And Allah has the ability to create a person with random choices.
2. This position does not actually indicate Allah’s inability to know any aspect of the future, for Allah could easily at any time decide and know what He would do and what His creatures would choose, but He prefers to preserve his own freedom and our limited free will.
3. This position recognizes that
   1. Allah knows everything.
   2. Everything in this context means “every object of knowledge.”
   3. Hence Allah knows every object of knowledge.
   4. Allah’s knowledge corresponds to reality.
   5. We really have the choices between real options.
   6. Hence Allah knows the choices as real and our options as real options.
   7. But if He knew what we would choose we would not have the real option to not choose it.

Dr. Tariq please give me your valuable feedback and advice on these three scenarios.

A CLARIFICATION ON DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A PREDICTION BASED ON A PERSON’S PAST ACTIONS AND A PREDICTION BEFORE THE PERSON IS CREATED

It should be stressed here that there is a key difference between

1. Observing a person’s behaviour and predicting how he may behave next, and
2. Predicting before creating the person how that person would behave if he is created.

For in the first case, what is predicted is how that the person will act, if he acts consistently with his past actions. This is a conditional prediction. But in the second case what is being predicted is how this person would act based on the characteristics He would be created with. Hence, to say, for example, that Abu Lahab was known as a dweller of hell before he was created is to imply that he would be created such that he would choose to go there. But, to say that based on Abu Lahab’s passed actions it was predicted that he failed so badly that he is past the threshold of recovery makes him responsible for his own failure.

In this light, the example of a teacher may be used to show that Allah can predict based on a person’s past actions that if this person continues like this he will fail. We should not stretch this to mean that Allah knew before creating this person that he would fail, for that would transform the prediction into a prescription (no it would not. It does only in your own mind and that of the people of Bida'a as well. It is again so simple: You are giving examples of Allah and dealing with Him as if He is like humans, and applying steps and your personal developed logic to him. He instructed us not to do so, as in the verses I quoted before). Likewise, a father may know his children, and predict their behaviour. But no reasonable father will knowingly send his child into a situation involving great harm. Moreover, he would not want to produce a child who he knows will do something terrible. For example, if a father knows:

1. If I marry Miss. X, I will have a good child, and
2. If I marry Miss. Y, I will have a bad child,

Then

1. He will marry Miss. X, and
2. If he marries Miss Y, he will not be able to blame the child for being bad.

Dr. Tariq I am sure that you will have much to add to what I have said, and you may find much to criticize. I hope I have answered your main question, here, as to whether or not my position entails a limitation in the knowledge of Allah. I hope I have demonstrated with both textual proofs and reasonable proofs that what I continue to affirm is the comprehensive knowledge of Allah. I value your comments. Please give reasons for any disagreement. After considering your reasons and evidence, I will modify any point as appropriate.

I feel that we live in a time when more than ever we need to unite for the sake of Allah without adopting errors in the process. We are all working for the same cause. I hope you will help me to do it better, and for that I shall remain ever grateful by the permission of Allah. Lastly, if I have said anything here that is offensive to you please be assured that it was not intentional and please accept my apologies in advance.

 

In my conclusion, I will say that you did not include even one Ayah or one Hadith in all your points! Don’t you see? You are against Quran And Sunnah and pro your own mind and Hawa هوى (desires). This is a text book case of that.

You hold nothing. Arguments that a good 8^th grader can refute, and 10^th grader can establish even stronger arguments! Your philosophical/scientific structure is as weak as the house of a spider, as Allah SWT said: “And the house of the spider is the weakest, if they know!” (وإن أوهن البيوت لبيت العنكبوت لو كانوا يعلمون). Nothing that you might hold onto in the day of Judgment standing alone in front of Allah SWT telling Him that: “Yes Allah, I was saying that you don’t know what people will choose before they choose it. You had lack of knowledge as without such lack all other attributes will be in vain”. What right are you giving yourself to say so? Very limited knowledge, no Arabic (Quran was revealed in Arabic and necessitates supreme command of the language to “change and discover the faults of all “classical” scholars of Ahlu Sunnah). You cannot convince me or most sane people with such weak examples and refuted logic, with no reference to Quran or Sunnah, as you are practically rejecting it, So, how do you expect to convince Allah SWT with that?

I am warning you, for your own interest in your hereafter, that this way leads to a lot of regret and loss.

Al-Shatbi said in Al-E’tesam v1 (الإعتصام), about Ahlul Bidaa:

"أنه يزداد من الله بعدا كلما اذداد اجتهادا في العبادة .. حديث يخرج من ضئضي هذا قوم تحقرون صلاتكم الى صلاتهم..."
"أن البدعة مانعة من شفاعة محمد صلى الله عليه وسلم ..حديث سحقا سحقا"
"البعد عن حوض محمد صلى الله عليه وسلم"
"أن المبتدع يلقى عليه الذل في الدنيا والغضب من الله في الآخرة"

“The more worship (in their Bida'a way) they do, the further away from Allah they become – The hadith of “Descendents of this person will such great readers of Quran….” Al-Boukhari, Muslim, Ahmad, Al-Nisaie.

Bida'a forbids the intercession of the Prophet PBUH “the Hadith of Boukhari when the prophet PBUH says to those who changed his Sunnah: Go away go away..”

Pushed away from the sink of the prophet PBUH where he will be giving water to those who followed him…

The innovator lives in shame and humiliation in Dunya no matter how much he thinks he is respected as Bida'a itself is a shame and disgrace, and will be punished from Allah.” AL-E'tesam V1 P53-133.

Again: use what Allah SWT gave you, being popular in the right way. Leave such satanic ideas and come back to the content and comfort of Sunnah. Don’t give yourself what you don’t deserve, thinking that you have brains better than all the scholars of Islam. You just don’t. You went away from Sunnah and they did not. Let Islam benefit from your efforts, as whatever you do now, being on a deviated road, will take you away form Allah. Take my word for it. I can write pages and pages of refuting such points, but again it is mere waste of time, as I don’t see you coming back…If you prove me wrong, I will be the happiest.

If you want to go back to Ahlul Sunnah, I am ready to take you in, and teach you a lot of what you don’t know…on the condition that:

1. You announce explicitly that you are going back to Sunnah and you are denouncing what you used to say before. You have an example of that in Abu Al-Hasan Al-Ashaa’rie when he denounced his own Mathhab and announced that he follows Imam of Ahlul Sunnah of all times Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, and wrote his book Al-Ibanah. So, don’t be afraid of being right.
2. You come to learn with clean slate, I mean by that with no pre-set concepts whatsoever, in any subject.

I am ready when you are. Until then:

وَاصْبِرْ نَفْسَكَ مَعَ الَّذِينَ يَدْعُونَ رَبَّهُم بِالْغَدَاةِ وَالْعَشِيِّ يُرِيدُونَ وَجْهَهُ وَلَا تَعْدُ عَيْنَاكَ عَنْهُمْ تُرِيدُ زِينَةَ الْحَيَاةِ الدُّنْيَا وَلَا تُطِعْ مَنْ أَغْفَلْنَا قَلْبَهُ عَن ذِكْرِنَا وَاتَّبَعَ هَوَاهُ وَكَانَ أَمْرُهُ فُرُطًا

“And keep thy soul content with those who call on their Lord morning and evening, seeking His Face; and let not thine eyes pass beyond them, seeking the pomp and glitter of this Life; nor obey any whose heart We have permitted to neglect the remembrance of Us, one who follows his own desires, whose case has gone beyond all bounds”.